PS4 Pro
#11
And even more news regarding the future of PlayStation consoles. Specifically, that there may not be many more.
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#12
According to the latest rumours, the Neo is still likely to release this year. If the documents that leaked are true, I would imagine a late September release to coincide with all games from October having a 'Neo' mode.
That Neo mode leak also gave us some idea as to what to expect. According to the leak - Neo Mode must be at 1080p minimum and that the frame rate cannot be less than the base model. Sounds obvious but if you consider a game at 1080/60 on the base model, having 2.5x the power should mean the game can run at 1440/60 on Neo. Its theoretically possible to drop the frame rate to 30fps and push the native resolution out to 4k in this case (half the frame rate/double the resolution) but according to Sony, they won't allow developers to do this.
What this essentially tells us though, if true, is that the developers first would have to consider the resolution. Games like SW:BF, Mirrors Edge and most likely BF1 run at 900/60 on PS4 so developers would first have to hit 1080p. With any additional power available, they could of course aim for 1200 or even 1440p as the frame rate is already 60fps. What they couldn't do though is push to 1440p if the frame rate is less stable/has bigger or more frequent dips than the PS4 version.
Personally I hope we see 1080/30 games run at 1080/60 (min). I would rather see the frame rate boosted with any potentially extra power used to increase the quality of the visual effects - things like shadows, lighting, textures etc but not to the point where the game has 'issues' like frame rate drops, texture pop in, screen tearing etc.
I am under no illusion that the Neo is a PS4 albeit with more power. Its not that different in essence from the N64 with its Expansion Pack - just built in. Sony it seems though are looking to protect its PS4 use base by insisting that the Neo will not get 'games/features/content' that the PS4 won't - so you won't get the Perfect Dark, DK64 or Majoras Mask type situation - More like Turok 2...
As a result, I am sure we will see the 'next' (5th) generation of Playstation and possibly as early as Q42018. Not primarily as a response to Project Scorpio but because of the PS4 and its 'lifecycle'. By that point, the PS4 will be 5yrs old and its already at the limit of its capability so another 2.5yrs isn't unrealistic - especially if you factor in a 'cross-over' period too - maybe 2yrs...
I think that is partly why the Neo is coming out this year - just over mid way. Its not 'too' powerful that when the PS5 launches, its not that much of a leap but not too weak as to have no/little benefit now. People would be 'disappointed if their Neo doesn't get games that clearly could run on it but have no chance at running on the PS4 once the PS5 is out too. I see the Neo as a way of getting to the 5yr mark, prolonging the 4th generation a bit longer and delivering a consistent, instead of declining, visual experience. Its inevitable that as developers continue to push games beyond the current level, especially with the new wave of GPU's etc hitting the market for PC's and that these are designed with the API's (DX12 for example) and VR in mind, will see the games running on 'older' technology struggling. The result will be an increasing number of 900p even maybe 720p on PS4 - therefore the Neo will help keep the generation going until yr5. The fact the Neo is limited/restricted by the inferior powered PS4 means it will still be subjected to its life-cycle. Sony won't want to miss out on games/features etc and therefore will need to bring out its 'next' console to deliver these experiences. Sony, I don't think can bring out a more powerful 'iterative' console. It would have to bring out the PS5. They can't turn round and say this game is minimum Neo required - therefore they will undoubtedly have to release a PS5 that is 'free' from the restrictions and limitations of the PS4. I still think Sony are going down the tradition 'console' route but with the technological leap this year has brought, they almost had to bring out a mid term console to see this life-cycle through.
By technical leap, I am referring to a lot of factors that have all come at once so to speak. VR is a big one and that is now a known quantity - including the hardware needed to run it adequately. The next wave of API's (like DX12) and the new Chips with new architecture designed to work more efficiently and in particular with VR and the API's in mind. 4K TV's are now standardised and selling more than 1080p etc. Its unlikely that we will see 'significant' jumps all at once again - VR is only likely to get smaller, lighter, better resolution and probably wireless, I can't see 8K replacing 4k for a long time and will still be subjected to HDR standards, DX12 was a big leap from 11 which was just a refinement of 10 and I wouldn't be surprised if 13 is a refinement of 12. Chips are tiny (14nm - the ones in the PS4 are 28nm, and the original PS3 the chips were 90nm, the slim dropped to 45nm chips) but I would be surprised if their is a 'big' change in these - Memory is the 'next' big change with HBM2 (currently expensive but no doubt will drop in price and become more widespread). I could of course be wrong but I think thinks will 'plateau' a bit with more 'refinement' than innovation. Its like technology was at sea-level, then jumped up to the top of the cliffs of Dover and then will have a steady incline up for a good few years...
Both Sony and MS had to release their PS4,XB1 consoles when they did because of the upcoming games. Their previous gen was showing its age and couldn't run the next wave - like Watchdogs, Arkham Knight, Witcher 3 but was too soon for all the technology that was in development that has now (or about to) arrived. They could have course just thrown Brute force into the consoles and hoped that would see them through - but that would have pushed the price right up.
I think its introduction will help developers and the PS4 gamers too though. Instead of being pressured into hitting 1080p on the PS4 - often at the expense of frame rate and/or visual effects, they 'could' opt to drop to 900p, lock the frame rate and tweak the visual effects up a bit. Time will tell of course...
I hope, as I said, they do opt to focus on frame rates. Obviously games like Horizon:ZD, Days Gone even God of War are at 30fps on PS4 so I hope they opt to go for 60fps for Neo. Horizon is possibly the only one I wouldn't mind if they did keep it to 30fps and boosted the visuals only - the game-play seems more acceptable for the 30fps and the world looks incredible so seeing that at higher res etc would be breath taking. Days Gone, with the fast hordes and GoW with its combat would be better suited to a frame rate boost in my opinion...
A Pessimist is just an Optimist with experience!

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#13
September seems a little soon for release, considering we haven't even seen the thing or had any official word on it outside of the fact it exists. It'd be great if it did release then so I could have one before my PSVR headset arrives, though.
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#14
(06-22-2016, 11:31 AM)Slam Shot Sam Wrote: September seems a little soon for release, considering we haven't even seen the thing or had any official word on it outside of the fact it exists. It'd be great if it did release then so I could have one before my PSVR headset arrives, though.

Months ago, when the first rumours, leaked specs etc came out, it was rumoured back then to launch before PSVR. Those rumours are still persisting. Whether that is because the leaked document indicated that games released from October onwards had to have a Neo mode or not, who knows? There has been a number of Official words on it in various publications, although mostly surrounding its existence and why it wasn't at E3. E3 presser though was very game focussed, no real hardware notifications or plans for the System. They barely mentioned the VR headset itself either.

I also think Sony wanted to show that their games, running on PS4, will still look great and used that to allay fears over the Neo. The fact that people thought Spider-Man was CGi or cut-scene (although if you look closely at some aspects - car damage, the sign breaking etc - its clear its 'game-play'), games like God of War looking incredible and the amount of enemies on screen in Days Gone - in a big open and visually impressive world were all running on PS4, could be used to allay fears that the games were not 'suddenly' going to be rubbish and the Neo isn't replacing it. They didn't want people asking or thinking if these games were running on Neo and the PS4 versions would look worse.

I still think Sept/Oct is about right for a release. It would fit in with the enhanced modes on games as well as be released in time for the Holiday season too. It seems odd to me if it was 'delayed' after this point - its getting too close to Christmas and just afterwards makes 'little' sense too with people counting the cost of that. If you then look at March-ish, It seems a long way off from October if games after to have a Neo mode from then.

In terms of an official announcement, there is still Gamescom, Tokyo Game Show and the Playstation Experience where it could make an official appearance. They could even announce it between now and any of those events if they think its going to detract from other announcements. This isn't that different from announcing a 'Slim' or a custom case version in essence - its not going to have any different games so don't need to announce it to showcase a new game. They couldn't show off Killzone or Infamous without first revealing the PS4 for example. I think Sony are also aware that people are concerned over their PS4's so announcing it with a big fanfare and spectacle could add to those concerns - not everyone is as well read as we are
A Pessimist is just an Optimist with experience!

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#15
I think it will arrive around October, and I've got it into my head the last couple of days that I might pick one up, but I'll probably end up skipping it as my next console will most likely be the NX, depending on what it actually is.

I won't be getting an Xbox One S either as my Halo 5 Xbox One is less than a year old and the size thing doesn't bother me when it's sitting under a TV which isn't 4K and can't take advantage of the sharper resolution.

I would like to get a NEO, I really would, but if the NX is arriving in March and Scorpio in November/December then I can't really justify buying three consoles in the space of one year.
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#16
I am almost certainly going to buy the Neo. Pbviously that could depend on accurate the rumours actually are but I do have a 4K TV and I would much rather game at 'higher' resolution/frame rates if possible without going down the PC route.
Even though I have a 4K TV and my XB1 has a 'dodgy' disc drive (I have to lift the front up so the game goes in far enough to align properly) I would not buy the Slim - not with Scorpio due out next year. I will use the Neo for the 4k media! On a 4k TV, it is obvious (probably more so) when games are under 1080p. At 720p only 1 in 9/10 pixels are actually 'native' even at 1080p only a quarter is actually native so I think it looks much more obvious. I can see my XB1 literally gathering dust until the scorpio comes out and it would be no different if I bought the Slim. Since I bought my PS4, the XB1 barely gets a look in - games look rough by comparison. Its almost like watching SD versions of HD channels! Obviously not all games are 'that' bad but even MS's own 1080p games have some very low levels of visual effects/textures etc to hit 1080p (Forza 6...). I guess if you don't have a PS4 and used to the 360, games look good but I can't help notice all the jaggies etc. I am not intentionally bashing the XB1 but given the choice of playing games at 720/60, 900/60 or 1080+/60 - NO contest. It seems that the Neo will be similarly priced as the 2TB Slim as well - Sony are rumoured to be targeting the $400 although that is/was a rumour and with a 500GB HDD as well. If its $50-$100 more with a 1/2TB HDD as well, then even better. I still have my PS3/XB360 set up in the bedroom so the Neo is unlikely going to be a 'short term' buy - even if Sony release the PS5 in Q4 2018 as I expect them too. It will just replace my PS3...
The Scorpio, if MS do as they say and allow gamers to bring their library with them with each new iteration of console then regardless of if this is a 4K XB1 or a 'new' console, it will make my XB1 (or slim if I had one) redundant. Why keep it if all my XB1 (inc the XB360 BC games) all tun on it anyway? If MS go this route, you will never need to keep your 'old' consoles again - not that its a bad thing but it does make buying an XB1s for a year totally pointless. I am sure the Neo will probably do the 4K bluray/streaming but also make games look and play better too which to me is far more important.
A Pessimist is just an Optimist with experience!

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#17
Interesting breakdown about the Neo from a leaked Developer Guideline PDF. Saying they want games to be at least 1800p (not quite the full 4k 2160p) on Neo mode and at the same or higher frame rates to the standard PS4 version. They are offering 'help' to developers who are struggling to get 1800p and struggling to hit the same (or better) frame rates. The game should automatically detect if you have a 4k TV connected and output the higher resolution. If you have a 1080p, the game will detect that and either 'downscale' to 1080p or have an inbuilt method to output to 1080p automatically.

It seems October 13th could be the release date too. Games released in September must have a day 1 Neo patch (if not on disc) but from October all games must have Neo mode included. Also mentions the next OS update will be version 3.70...
A Pessimist is just an Optimist with experience!

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#18
So who watched the PS event today?

Personally I thought it was incredibly boring, for me new tech is something that gets me excited and with in 10 minutes I was already bored out of my mind. the messaging was all wrong. also knowing the Scorpio is coming next year and we know the graphic specs now are much more powerful this console seems to server no purpose. further yet HDR will be enabled on all current PS4's. they just shot them selves in the foot for one of the USP's of the product.

And now confirmed the PS4 Pro does not have a 4K capable Blu-ray player. only 4K in streaming, its their own bloody format and they don't support it???????? can only be in my mind to keep the cost the same as the original PS4 launch price.

The Xbox One S has the exact same and even better features than this and is £100 different. the only difference is it runs 4K natively instead of up scaled which for 99% of people doesn't matter because they don't even have a 4K TV.

No idea why this has made me so angry about this but it has. such a shitty move IMO, just a money grab. No one was asking for this, No one needs this this year. its only 3 years after original PS4. Xbox I can justify in the sense that it is effectively a new console, and 4 years after is reasonable with OG Xbox to 360 president (also 7/8 years is an insanely long generation), 3 years for a step is just insane.

Also keeping this as clean as I have has been a task.

Anyway, what do other people think. I'm interested to see what the general consensus is.
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#19
(09-07-2016, 08:58 PM)Timmeh555 Wrote: So who watched the PS event today?

Personally I thought it was incredibly boring, for me new tech is something that gets me excited and with in 10 minutes I was already bored out of my mind. the messaging was all wrong. also knowing the Scorpio is coming next year and we know the graphic specs now are much more powerful this console seems to server no purpose. further yet HDR will be enabled on all current PS4's. they just shot them selves in the foot for one of the USP's of the product.

And now confirmed the PS4 Pro does not have a 4K capable Blu-ray player. only 4K in streaming, its their own bloody format and they don't support it???????? can only be in my mind to keep the cost the same as the original PS4 launch price.

The Xbox One S has the exact same and even better features than this and is £100 different. the only difference is it runs 4K natively instead of up scaled which for 99% of people doesn't matter because they don't even have a 4K TV.

No idea why this has made me so angry about this but it has. such a shitty move IMO, just a money grab. No one was asking for this, No one needs this this year. its only 3 years after original PS4. Xbox I can justify in the sense that it is effectively a new console, and 4 years after is reasonable with OG Xbox to 360 president (also 7/8 years is an insanely long generation), 3 years for a step is just insane.

Also keeping this as clean as I have has been a task.

Anyway, what do other people think. I'm interested to see what the general consensus is.

I am disappointed in the lack of 4k HDR Bluray player but then I haven't watched a bluray disc in years on a console. At the end of the day, if I had to choose between a 4k HDR Bluray player or an upgrade to gaming (resolution/frame rates HDR etc) - NO contest! I don't buy a console to watch movies - I have SkyQ for that! I buy a console to game and that always takes priority. The PS4 pro is the same price as the XB1s but over 3x as powerful. Given that 99.9999995 of the time I will be looking at games, I pre-ordered the PS4 Pro because I don't want 720p games on a 4K HDR TV.

Just watched the Horizon: Zero Dawn (I pre-ordered the Limited Edition months ago) trailer in 4k and feel that the PS4 Pro will do games like this, as well as Spider-Man, Days Gone, CoD:IW/CoD:4r, ME:A etc etc justice. Given the choice of playing Battlefield 1 at 720p (XB1s), 900p (PS4) or over 1080p (PS4P), I know what I would rather have.

The Pro is just an upgraded PS4 - Its NOT a new console - unlike the Scorpio. I know MS say its an XB1 thats 4k, but its also going to have unique games and features that the XB1 wont - VR for example and I bet it will have other games that won't be on XB1 - MS said they are developing software for it! Every PS4 game will run on PS4 Pro and vice versa.

I guess if you prefer to watch movies and occasionally play games - a 4K HDR bluray player that can play games is more important. If you prefer to game, then a console that offers the best gaming performance with a bit of media (4k streaming) is best.

The media briefing was never going to be 'exciting', it was after all meant for the media, press reporters etc
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#20
As an Xbox One person I wasn't that excited but they showed off some good tech. Tech I will never buy, but interesting nonetheless. I just hope that Microsoft get their balls out soon.
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